From: "vrnparker" Mailing-List: list vediculture@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list vediculture@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 06:26:04 -0000 Subject: [world-vedic] Vedic Indigenous Truths "I am sure Dr. Mubarak does not claim to be more expert in Buddhism than the Dalai Llama. He obviously recognizes the unity of Vedic/Hindu and Buddhist Dharma. Thus he is hosting a Dharma conference along with the modern leaders of Hindu spirituality in order to confirm this fact. Its also why he chose India as his sacred land away from Tibet." Respectful Greetings, What Mubarak wrote was total disinformation and paints a highly inaccurate picture of Hinduism. I apologise if I seemed anti-Islam. I am not. I just see it as one of the ways to Divinity not the Only way. I encourage all sincere seekers to research for themselves and I don't caution anyone to accept any "Truths" because we are all free to accept "truth" as it appeals to our hearts. I encourage inquiry and logical application of info to reach independent conclusions. To add to the info pool I wrote this long rebuttal to Dr Mubarak. I invite anyone interested to email me for the details like references etc. Because we have no doubts about what happen to the American Indians and as to who perpetrated these crimes against them, it is only logical to understand that these same forces did the same to India. One only needs to look at Constantinople and see the Islamification of this ancient Christian city to recognize the same thing was done everywhere Islam went. WHERE ARE ALL THE ANCIENT CHRISTIAN CHURCHES, SCHOOLS AND LIBRARIES OF THE MIDDLE EAST AND NORTH AFRICA? I am not an expert in that region but I am sure they perished under the sword of politicized Islam. In India, Kashi is the ancient city of Shiva but where is the ancient Shiva temple? It's gone. There is a big mosque there, though. Go to Mathura, Krsna's city. Where is the ancient Krsna temple? Gone. But there is a big mosque there too. Go to Ayodhya, Rama's city. Where is the ancient temple? We are told it never existed even though Rama's story, the Ramayana, is the most popular ancient literature of India. Though, Ayodhya is repeatedly mentioned as the capital of Rama, we are taught that no one built any spiritual place of worship there until the Muslims built a Mosque there. Now go to those parts of India that were never conquered by Islam. What do we see? Many ancient and beautiful Hindu temples can be found. They have been built with such mathematical precision that can not be duplicated to this day. We are supposed to believe that there is a magic line, north of which the Hindus were lazy idiots who built nothing. But south of this line we suddenly come across the most magnificent architecture. This does not make sense unless we understand that North India was savaged by the Moguls, who were Mongols that converted to Islam. Again we see another paradox. The Mongols were famous for destroying and carried out some of the largest massacres in history. No one denies they did this everywhere they went. Suddenly when they get to India we are told to believe they did nothing but "liberate the suffering Indians from the tyranny of Hinduism." Anyway I agree that Islam has some liberating elements but fails when it teaches that there is no Prophet except Mohammed and no God but Allah. I do want to point out that I accept an individual's right to be a Muslim or Christian. I however have been repeatedly proselytized by people of these two groups that feel they must convert me from my heathen ways. This is the heart of the problem. I can accept Jesus and Mohammed as reps of God but they cannot accept Shiva, Krishna, Rama or Mother Durga as reps of God. In the parts of India unconquered by Islam we can also notice that the women are much more involved in leadership roles, leading chants, lecturing etc. They don't cover their heads and can always be found at the front of social and spiritual functions. The best way to learn about a culture is to inquire from members of the culture in question. This is the honorable and respectful way of researching. Unfortunately all of Mubarak's statements come from people outside of the Hindu culture. They imposed their views on India's history ignoring all the evidence based on the traditions and beliefs of the culture itself. This is a common tactic which implies that such superstitious, ignorant heathens cannot be trusted to tell the world their own history. No, we are expected to depend on the so-called experts even though they have no practical experience or understanding of the culture they are studying. Thus we are taught that even though American Indian histories place them solidly in the Americas from the beginning of time, the so-called experts say "NO. American Indians are Asians that walked across the frozen Bering straits." The much maligned Hindu caste system is a modern corruption of the Vedic Varna system. While secularists and outsiders translate Varna to solely mean color, those being of the culture know it also means aura or 'vibe'. As one would say that person is shining does not mean that the person is literally shining like a light bulb but refers to their energy or mood. Mubarak says Manu (source of the word MAN) invented the caste system that's not what the Indian literature says. The Vedic/Hindu scripture the Bhagavad Gita means the "Song of God." In there Krishna clearly says "Chatur Varnam Maya Shrishtam Guna Karma Vibhagashah." Which means - The 4 Varnas or societal divisions were created by Me (God). They are based on CHARACTER AND ACTIONS..." Nowhere does He say it is based on Birth. Its like expecting a surgeon's son to automatically be a surgeon. This was a later practice which came in the later Vedic era when the culture was in decline. So to say that it is real Hinduism is wrong. Anyway, I challenge anyone to find one society that isn't divided into functional roles. My Guru was once invited to the Soviet Union in the 1970s. His host challenged him by saying, "Our Communist society is superior to your Hindu/Vedic Society because we don't have a caste system." My Guru immediately replied, "How can you say this? When you came to visit me today you were driven by a chauffeur in a State owned car. You got your permission to interview me from the Police and on your way to my hotel room you walked past the street sweeper lady and the front door was opened by the doorman. So its obvious that even your Soviet society is depended on the functionality of the Varna system." The point is that no society can survive, not even the ants, without the Varna system, which is nothing more than a division of labor. As I said earlier the problem arose when things became based on birth rather qualification. This was a fault of the Hindus, but again the natural devolution of any society is understood as an unavoidable eventuality. Thus in the "Song of God" Krsna says: "Whenever and wherever there is a decline and imbalance in the natural order, I repeatedly come down to earth to set things right." That's why the lives of the great heroes of ancient India are full of images of humanity and love. Yes society and humanity stray but the heroes and worshipable figures of Hinduism are loved for the very fact that they correct injustice. We Vedic/Hindus accept all the Prophets, Avatars and Saints as Messengers of God. Not just Jesus or Mohammed. Like a normal human can have many children and friends, the Supreme Being is not limited to having only One Son or Messenger. All these Reps of God came to heal societies' diseased condition. The trick of the anti-traditionalist is to focus on the diseased form of a society and present it as the normal state of affairs. That's why we are always informed about "the Evil human sacrifices of the Aztecs or the scalping frenzy of the American Indians etc." and the uninformed goes away believing the worst rather than the truth. Just as the theory that American Indians are not indigenous to the Americas was invented to rationalize European conquest as a 2nd wave of invaders, the same has been done to the Hindus of India. As someone who works closely with Indian tribals, I am very familiar with many of their ancestral tales. Who are their heroes? They are great Vedic/Hindu heroes such as Rukmini, Bhima, Krsna, Sita etc. In other words the theory that the tribals of India are a distinct separate group from the Hindus of India is not believed by the Tribals themselves. It is a theory invented by the British to discredit the Hindus. This theory is called the Aryan Invasion theory. Adolf Hitler's Aryan philosophy was based upon this British theory. The results are well known. According to the Vedic wisdom of India, the source of the term Aryan or "Arya", Arya means Noble not in birth but in deed. We know Aryan was never considered a race because Balaram was a Light complexioned Aryan, while Arjuna was also considered a great leader of the Aryans and he was famous for being very dark of hue. Again we are told by the so-called experts that even though the vast Indian literature never use the word Arya to mean a race, it means a race because they have decided it means a race. As to the source of Aryan=Vedic=Hindu civilization. The theory that they came from the inhospitable barren Russian steppes does not make sense. India to this day is bountiful in both population and resources. It is much more logical that such a prolific peoples would come from a place of prolific resources. Besides the point that the traditional sources, both Hindu and Buddhist literatures, never identify a foreign source of their culture. Again we are told to believe racist theories that sprouted Nazism. It is obvious that without the racist Aryan theories, we are forced to come to the conclusion that India may have had a major impact and been a source of wisdom for the ancient Europeans. This theory would mean that white people had to accept brown people as an advanced civilization. This was unthinkable and unbelievable to the racist mindset of European scholardom of the 1800s. I am actually quite shocked to read Dr Mubarak's reinforcement of her Afro-centric studies with the virulent Aryan racism of the Euro-centric theories of yesteryear. Race is not an issue in real Hindu/Vedic civilization thus the issue of whether Buddha was black is irrelevant. Krsna was black as well - thus the name Krsna which means dark as a raincloud. The artificial separation of Buddhism from Hinduism does not hold up. Buddhism is Hinduism stripped of its dependence on Sacrifice or the need to rely on Scriptures or demigod worship. Buddha is an Avatar of Krsna who came to stop the needless animal blood sacrifices of the ancient Indians. Again it's God coming to set things right. I am sure Mubarak does not claim to be more expert in Buddhism than the Dalai Llama. He obviously recognizes the unity of Vedic/Hindu and Buddhist Dharma. Thus he is hosting a Dharma conference along with the modern leaders of Hindu spirituality in order to confirm this fact. It's also why he chose India as his sacred land away from Tibet. Mubarak seems to be promoting a form Matriarchalism. Again this is an unbalanced view. The Hindu reality is one of Female and Male energies in harmony. Thus there is no need to separate Hindu cultures into patriarchal and matriarchal. Shiva is incomplete w/out Parvati/Kali, Krsna is not complete w/out Radha, Rama is incomplete w/out Sita. This is reflected in the natural world where Man and Woman together reproduce, Lion and Lioness, Cow and Bull etc. As for Celts and Tuatha de Dannan. One of the ancient Vedic races were called the "Danavas" or the children of Goddess Danu. Tuatha de Dannan means "the children of the Goddess Danu." They are the same people and they play an imminent role in many of the ancient Hindu legends. Great Kings like Prahlad and Bali were Danavas. Again there is no separate identity. In conclusion I want to close by pointing out that it is because of Hindu civilization that India has over a billion people yet still has room for elephants, has the last remaining population of Asian lions who used to stretch from Greece to China, tigers, rhinos besides million of cows etc. They don't need to cut trees for fuel because the cow dung is dried and burns longer than wood. Because Hindu civilization teaches that all of us, even the ant, is equal in the eyes of the Creator, Hindu culture has survived to this day. So anyone who made to the end of this article, thank you for the time and please accept my humble challenge. Compare American Indian spirituality with Vedic/Hindu spirituality. The evidence will speak for itself. They are both ancient indigenous cultures that allow for diversity, seeming contradictions and a variety of belief systems. However we see any differences as complimentary of each other. There is no need to convert and reject our ancestors ways, unlike the demands of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic civilizational paradigms. Namaste Vrn Parker -- In Native-Prophecy-Council@yahoogroups.com, "Sophia Mubarak"