Subject: [world-vedic] You Have misunderstood Muslims' Position Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 06:34:00 -0000 From: Ayesha Reply-To: vediculture@yahoogroups.com To: vediculture@yahoogroups.com Brother Vrin, Please understand it's not true in any sense that we Muslims hate or despise Hindus or look at them as inferior. Nevertheless, we believe that they are mistaken in their religion. We can't worship God in a capricious or arbitrary manner. We can't worship Him the way we want; we must worship Him the way He wants us to worship Him. He sets the rules and laws. The master tells the slave how he wants to be served. The slave has no right to say that I will serve you the way I want and I don't care if it's to your liking or not. Our position is this: all religions other than Islam are a distortion of Islam in one or the other form. Islam is the one and original way of life prescribed by your and mine Creator. Abraham was not a polytheist, he was a Muslim. Moses was not a Jew, he was a Muslim. Jesus was not a Christian, he was a Muslim. Shiva and Krishna, if they were Prophets of God (they could very well be), were not Hindus but upright Muslims. Their teachings have been perverted by men. We believe Islam is the only way acceptable to God and thus the only way to salvation for God Himself has prescribed Islam for humanity. Let me say it again, we Muslim have utmost respect for honor, life and properties of non-Muslims. They will be judged by God, not by us. I hope, my brother, you understand our position now. May God, the Most Merciful, Guide all of us to the right path. Amen. Ayesha Ayesha@postmaster.co.uk Subject: [world-vedic] Re: You Have misunderstood Muslims' Position Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 06:37:28 -0000 From: Vrin Parker Reply-To: vediculture@yahoogroups.com To: vediculture@yahoogroups.com Sister Ayesha, your message confirms my point that most Muslims/Christians are convinced that all, except themselves, are a displeasure to God. This is a superiority complex. The fact is God says clearly in the ancient scripture known as the SONG OF GOD, that He is equal to all but is especially compassionate to those who develop a personal and devotional connection with Him. He clearly blesses all the various sincere seekers of God regardless of the path they are naturally on. He also says that throughout all our lives He is with us just waiting for us to turn our hearts back in His direction. In the end of this ancient text, THE SONG OF GOD, God says to abandon all varieties of Religious ritual and obligation and just Surrender unto Him. So Yes, the message of surrender=Islam unto God=Krsna=Allah=the Compassionate One, is the essence of Islam, because Islam is ONE (1) OF THE SACRED WAYS of SURRENDERING TO GOD. Krsna, who is the source of the Song of God, clearly proves that He is God by displaying His universal form. The Koran is a Sacred text spoken by a Messenger of God, The Bhagavad Gita or "Song of God" is actually spoken by God, Krishna. The Title, "Song of God" is intentional, just as the Koran's title and content is intentional and expected to be received for what it claims to be. We, Hindus, accept the Bible and Koran along with the 5000 plus major Vedic texts as Sacred. A majority of Muslims/Christians believe only in their one or two scriptures and consider all other sacred texts as misrepresentations at best. Among many things, Krsna says in the Song of God, "Aham Sarvasya Prabhavo... I am the Source of Everything." Krsna also says that there are many paths to salvation, but that the path of Devotion, Surrender and Gratitude are the easiest and uniquely personal. Because even we as beings are many things to different people, so God is the greatest and uniquely diverse being. You, yourself are friend to one person, yet a mother to another, and daughter to another person or a sister. These are all clearly distinct relationships all attributed to one person. So we can only imagine the multifaceted, unique and intimate relationships the greatest of all beings, God, has with His Countless Children. So No, the Abrahamic tradition is not the only True way of being a Surrendered Soul, which is the real meaning of Muslim. The real question is, How pleased will our mutual Father, God be with His Muslim and Christian children for belittling and discrediting the sacred bonds between Him and his Non-Abrahamic Children? Om Tat Sat Vrin Subject: Re: [world-vedic] You Have misunderstood Muslims' Position Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 13:56:18 From: "ganapa vijai" Reply-To: vediculture@yahoogroups.com To: vediculture@yahoogroups.com Dear Ayesha, The true fact is Vedic-Hindu dharma is the original religion of the world given by God, it always existed and is existing and will exist, no matter which prophet comes or goes or what he says or does. All the knowledge that humankind requires is there in the Vedas and Bhagavadgita which have been given by God himself, so there is not need of any other book. Vedic-Hindus have been warned that in the Kaliyuga (present age) pseudo-religions will sprout like mushrooms challenging the original Vedic dharma, disguising themselves as the true religions, this we are witnessing from the past 2000 years. However sweet or soft they talk or conduct themselves, their mission is to take control of the human mind into slavery. We believe that, the God that Jesus was praying to or the Allah that Mohammed was praying to is none other that Lord Krishna the original supreme God. Lord Krishna is the Supreme God and make no mistake of it. Let his mercy be upon you. Lord Krishna is the giver and protector of all vedic knowledge, he did it in the past and will do it in the future too. Christianity and Islam can be better understood in light of the vedic wisdom. In that sense Abrahamic religions are nothing but corruptions of the original vedic dharma. So best for all is to go back to the uncorrupted vedic dharma. Vedic hindu dharma is for all the people, only the sane can understand and value it. It is not based on fear or force but is based on love between the creator and created. There is nothing like master and slave, fear or force which is but a product of pseudo-faiths. Krishna is the supreme personality of godhead and the only way to salvation, if his devotees are treated by mean people or faiths, they will be vanquished. May Krishna shower his blessing on you and show you the right path. Please join Krishna's Army and attain salvation. Amen. All glories to Lord Krishna and his Vedic-Hindu dharma Subject: [world-vedic] Faults in the Gita and Bible Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 01:24:09 -0000 From: "vrinparker" Reply-To: vediculture@yahoogroups.com To: vediculture@yahoogroups.com ---From Mohammad Shafiuddin wrote: > Dear Brother Parker, Thanks a lot of your comments. I agree to your most points. Brother I would like to gave one message to your GOD is One he is the Almighty, Superpower, and he is everything, he does not require to eat but he feed us, he gave birth to us neither he begotten, he do not require sex, he did not lie, HE IS JUST, he has full power on everything. ALSO at the same time he is not a AUTHOR OF CONFUSION, he cannot confused his own creatures, and if does according to me he is not a GOD, but I have firm belief in him that he cannot confuse. Dear brother you mention to me that Gita's verse, I do agree if you read Quran Allah do not deny any other way of life(Religion) but it is mentioned that today he is completing the message(way of life) for human being, and also mentioned in the Holy Book that he said his prophet every part of the world and sent so many books, but those prophets are for those people and the book is for those people, it means may be Ram/Krishna are prophets of the that time and may be Brava Gait is holy book of that time. At the same Quran mentioned that those books are incomplete and rejected by him, hereafter only Quran is the complete way of life and accepted by Allah, so it is must for us to follow the Quran it teaches us complete way of life. There so many verses in Bible, Gita which match the verses of the Holy Quran, may be it is also from Allah, since Bible, Gita are changed by the people and cannot solve human problem we reject as holy books. Book of God cannot contradicts itself. It is a challenge to all human they have to one Contradiction in Quran, surely it is not there because it is from Allah. Defects in Bhagavat Gita is: God created human being in four category, Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya, Shudra. Brother how can God create like and discriminate own creation, and incite violence between them, for a logical man surely not, for those having blind faith OK. Contradictions in Bible: In old testaments it is mentioned that anybody want to go heaven they have to follow God and its way of life, while new testaments said that any body want to go heaven they have to say that CHRIST DIED FOR SINS, how come salvation concept is changed from old to new, means GOD IS AUTHOR OF CONFUSION and at the time contradictions. Thank you very brothers MOHAMMAD SHAFIUDDIN Subject: [world-vedic] Dear Mohammad Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 01:24:46 -0000 From: "vrinparker" Reply-To: vediculture@yahoogroups.com To: vediculture@yahoogroups.com Dear Mohammad, Respectful greetings. I just wanted to address a couple of points you made. I do not agree that either the Judeo-christian bibles, Quran or the Vedic scriptures are faulty. Its the actions or misuse of them by their supposed followers that can turn a message of love into an action of hate. The Vedas directly state that God is so amazing that they can only offer a glimpse and not the actual reality of Divinity. But by following their teachings, under the guidance of one who has seen the truth, one is guaranteed to reach God. About the Varna system, (which the caste system is a perverted reflection of). It is important to understand what it truly is. The fact is every society, human, animal, plant etc has a Varna system. Ants have workers, Drones, Queens and gatherers. All human societies have the same division. even the pseudo socialists former Soviet Union or Marxist China had these same divisions. Saudi Arabia itself was built and is running on the Varna system. Professors, Teachers and Mullas = Brahmins, Royal House of Saud, Police, Government and Military = Kshatriyas Oil Execs, Farmers and Merchants = Vaishyas Laborers and Artists = Shudras ALL SOCIETIES MUST HAVE THESE DIVISIONS IN ORDER TO FUNCTION. One of the greatest sources of chaos in the world today is due to peoples constant struggle to find out who and what they are. What unique gifts do they individually have to offer society as a whole?it is a mystery to most. Hinduism had the opposite problem when it forced one to stay within a certain caste based on birth rather than qualification or one's actions. In the Bhagavad Gita, the Song of God, Lord Krishna clearly says that Varna is decided by one's natural qualities, actions and inclinations. Never does He say it is based on one's bloodline or familial ties. It is only logical. Would you allow someone to do brain surgery just because his father was a qualified brain surgeon? No. You would want to know whether that particular individual is suitable to operate based on that persons record and talent. The Bhagavad Gita's recognition of the Varna system is not a fault but rather it is powerful proof of its insight and practicality. The beautiful reality is that God so Loved the world, He has come to all peoples and tribes on the earth and given them His message of Love. (I believe the Quran clearly states this fact.) The sooner Humanity can begin to honor God's Love by honoring the many beautiful traditions He has given us, the sooner Peace on Earth will be a reality. Also it is important to never deny God's ability to do anything, including eat, sleep, have sex or even be confused. If He wants, for Lila or Divine Play, God can act like a baby or as the most powerful Almighty King of creation. Of course, He is not required to do these things. God has no requirements. As you said He just is. But we can not deny His ability to do these things, if He so desires. It is true, teachings at different times and to different peoples can differ, but it should be up to the individual to spiritually evolve. A societal enforcement that treats non-Muslims as lower or to pay extra taxes etc is wrong. Such conversion tactics are not from the heart and thus how can they be authentic or sincere. God can only be reached by authentic love and sincerity. When such teachings have lost their relevance because of superstition, dogmatic belief and the essence of loving God is forgotten, then these teachings loose their relevance. The very fact that Islam spread so far but didn't replace Hinduism, Judaism or Christianity proves that these traditions are authentic paths to Loving God therefore it is redundant and unnecessary to replace them. Only where and when people had lost the essence of Loving God has the great tradition of Surrender = Islam been successful. The statement that Mohammad, Peace be upon him, is the final last prophet is easily understood when we understand that the message he brought is the final and most important message. It is the same final teaching in the Bhagavad Gita as well. So all the enlightened teachers and Avatars since Muhammad (PBUH) are only reaffirming the same final message. We really are one family, all children of the same father, the All Compassionate Allah. Sincerely, Vrin Parker