========
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: VEDANTA
From: Jahnu@wineasy.se (Jahnu dasa)
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 11:06:47 GMT

star9m@cris.com (Quicksilver) wrote:

>>snip krishna evangelism<

Hey smart boy, it's called philosophy. Couldn't really relate to that,
could you?

>If you read through alt.atheism you will find that most atheists here
>do think that people have believed in  various religions for thousands
>of years and there is nothing to it. It is a popular no-brainer
>explanation of the unknown or unexplainable,

Maybe unknown to you and your fellow sheepish materialists. It was
never unknown to the sages of the Vedic culture. 

> and a marvelous tool to
>manipulate the sheep with.

You mean like atheism? Who but a dog or a sheep would suggest that
there is no meaning to life other than to rot and die, and in the mean
time run around sniffing for sense gratification? Actually not even
dogs or sheep do that. They simply snif around for sense
gratification. Is that what you want to be? A dog?

>Here you are using your computer designed by scientists and using
>power that pollutes, typical theist hypocrisy. 

Why shouldn't I use a computer? I have to in order to counteract the
brain dead propaganda oozing out from the atheistic propaganda machine
like pus from an infested sore.

>Your life expectancy is
>20 to 30 years longer than it was 100 years ago, thanks to the small
>cult that is destroying the planet.

You haven't a clue about how long people lived 100 years ago. You just
gullibly accept anything they shove down your throat. You are simply a
product of modern consumer society. 

> Life can never be completely happy
>and it always has been confusing,

As if you knew. Of course life cannot be completely happy when you
have an atheistic culture running the show as is the present
situation.

How do you know life has always been confused? After I gave aural
reception to Krishna's message and added it to my life, I ceased to
be confused. You, on the other hand, just state things blindly and
expect us to accept your feeble outlook as some kind of divine
revelation. Is that it?

> but again science is the the culprit
>responsible for not providing you with perfect harmony.

Modern material science is the culprit of providing people with no
hope or meaning in life. All you can look forward to in that believe
system is to rot and die and while you wait for that inevitable
hopeless end, you should kindly buy as many as the gadgets they
provide you with out of their causeless mercy and deep affection for
humanity.

>Since christians are the most common theist proslytizers that intrude
>into this NG, it is a common misconceptions that atheists are so
>ignorant that they do not know that other religions exist. It gets
>boring to have to explain that to every crackpot spiritualist that
>comes here. So what if your cult is older than their cult, it has just
>collected more bullshit along the way.

Aren't we being a little emotional here?Is that supposed to be an
intelligent statement? Did you investigate? Did you check anything out
except what's on your TV screen? What's your foundation for saying
that all religion is bullshit? Did you check out all religion? You are
simply a tiny inexperienced teenager with cow dung for brains.

>You all claim to have the whole picture of life based on what was
>written by goat ropers from thousands of years ago. 

There you go again, smart boy. Did you even care to check out the
knowledge and philosophy of the Vedas?

Do you think that they would study the writings - which by the way
were written in the most sophisticated and complex language known to
mankind - by some goat ropers in all the major universities of the
world?  Am I talking to an insect here or what? Why don't you go get
yourself an education? Oh, I forgot, you don't need that here in
alt.atheism, right?

This is a free forum for all kinds of unbacked, unfounded spewings
from teenagers with no goal or aim in life, right?

>You have no
>trouble with the science that brought you the electronic medium since
>you all use it extensively.

It's here, so I'm using it. What's your problem, smart boy?
It's only fair that technology should be put to some good use.
You think you have some kind of monopoly on using technology?

> We've seen the clergy from most religions
>driving around in their hi-tech cars and flying around in sophisticted
>aicraft.

So what? Hypocrites and ignorants are found everywhere. What's so
strange about people using religion for their personal aggrandizement?
Selfish, narrowminded people will use any means, including religion,
to further their own schemes.

What's your point? Do you think that all people who profess some kind
of religion are actually religious? Are you so easily fooled? Don't
you know that you have to judge a person, not by his words or the the
tag he has put on himself, but by his activities and the mentality he 
has cultivated?

> Then you claim that scientists are close-minded, and in
>essence; idiot-savants focused only on their narrow fields of
>specialty.

Yes, I do. Isn't it a fact? Do you think you have refuted that fact by
your cheap argument?

>For some reason Darwin and evolution are the favorite targets of most
>theists.

Because it shows that you too need a religion.

> You have no trouble accepting the science that does not
>conflict with your ancient dogmas and that you can use.

What does it tell you if modern science confirms much of the info
documented in the Vedas long time ago? That the Vedas are wrong? Is
that your logic?

I never said that science cannot be put to good use. I said that they
should stick to technology which they obviously know something about
and don't meddle in philosophy and existential matters which they know
nothing about. That's what I said.

> There is as
>much evidence supporting Darwin as there is for any other science.

You never saw any evidence. You just accept it when they tell you
there is a lot of evidence. In fact you'll accept any foolish idea as
long as it confirms your narrow outlook on life, ie. that there is no
spiritual dimension to life and that life is simply meant to enjoy the
body and mind.

Do you think this is a very positive and sane philosophy?
What if you happen to be born disabled or invalid, or ugly, or very
poor? What hope can your demoniac philosophy give such a person?
What do you think it must feel like to a person without arms or legs
to be told that he is his body and that he has no other identity
beyond that? What can you offer the unlucky, disabled and poor people
of the world? Huh, smart boy? Tell me that. 

Atheism is simply an oppressive and depressive philosophy with nothing
to offer people except polished animal life.

> By
>denying evolution you are saying that the following fields of study
>are invalid:

>Paleontology
>Anthropology
>Archaeology
>Geology
>Biology
>Secular History (recorded by those without a relgious agenda)

I say that these, like so many other things, can be employed by the
atheistic propaganda machinery, of which you are clearly a sorry
victim, to propagate the foolish notion that there isn't a God, but
these fields of studies can of course also be employed by real
scientists who are actually interested in understanding reality as it
is. Unfortunately they are vastly out numbered.

>I am sure that other atheists can add to this list, but that these are
>a few that come to mind.

You don't even have a point.

<cut some trivial stuff>

>I didn't see any Vedans walking on the moon, and I am damn sure that
>prayer or TM did not build the spacecraft that brought the Astronauts
>who did.

In fact you didn't see anyone walking on the moon. Do I have to remind
you that your eyes are imperfect and don't have the ability to look
all the way to the moon? All you saw was some pictures on your TV
screen. Actually I doubt you even saw that. You probably weren't even
born in -69. Do you believe anything you see on TV?

Do you know what a computer looked like in -69? Like the computer I am
using right now, which is just an ordinary 486/DX4/100Mhz - it's
practically outdated by the current standard - do you know what such a
computer looked like in -69? Let me tell you; it would practically
take up the space of an entire block.

Do you know that the power and speed of the computer they brought in
their space shuttle was equal to that of a modern calculator similar
to what the kids use in highschool now a days? In fact somebody wrote
a book about that. It is called "Going to the moon in a calculator."
Did you read that?

And why aren't they going to the moon anymore now a days? Imagine how
handy it would be.They could skip all their atomic and chemical waste,
which now rots on the floors of the oceans, to the moon. Why don't
they do that? Why don't they do something usefull like that with their
spaceprogram? Tell me that, smart boy.

>Of course, the scientists and planners of the Space Program
>can't see the whole picture and are making everyone in the world
>unhappy.

Well, they certainly spend a lot of money uselessly, exploding space
ships, in stead of feeding the poor, wouldn't you say?

>How many diseases and plagues have the Vedas cured, and how many
>plague victims died with their god's prayers on their lips? Louis
>Pasteur was one of those unfeeling narrow minded scientists driving
>planet Earth to the brink of destruction. 

So noone gets sick now a days? Is that what you are saying? How come
we build more an more hospitals then, if modern medicine is so
efficient in curing diseases? What diseases did they cure?

Heart attack? (Very prominent cause of death in areas where people eat
a lot of meat) Cancer? AIDs? Mental disturbances of countless
varieties... did they cure that? Get a grip on yourself. Your
arguments are so cheap. In fact I have seen with my own eyes people
who were dying from incurable cancer going to India and becoming cured
by Ayurvedic treatment. You are simply a brainwashed fool. You know
nothing.

>Do you realize that the vegetables that you are so fond of are not in
>their original form? 

So? Maybe that's why I get sick from eating them.

>They have been genetically enhanced or are the
>products of selective breeding, based on the lessons learned from
>evolutionist studies and experimentation. Advances in this field are
>going to have to help feed the millions of poor uneducated people in
>dirt-poor over-populated slum cities of countries ruled by theocracy
>and ancient traditions.

Really? How come people are still starving all over the world, if your
useless studies could help them? Do you think, smart boy, that L.A,
N.Y and Paris are not dirt-poor, poluted, and overpopulated slum
cities ruled by the theocracy of modern traditions? Do you live in a
cave or what? Don't you know that thousands and millions of people die
every year in these cities from polution, crime and malnutrition?

> Just look at India and Pakistan to see how
>well the people live there under the enlightened teachings of krishna.

First of all they don't follow the teachings of Krishna anymore in
India. They too are enamored by modern consumerism. Secondly 
Pakistan certainly don't follow the teachings of Krishna, since they
are Moslems and hate Krishna. Didn't you know that they are Moslems in
Pakistan?

>You can have it, I am going to stick with oppressive science and
>brutal logic.

Logic? You haven't presented any logic so far. Did you ever go to
India and see how people live there? I was there 5 times and I never
saw anyone starve there. In fact I could swear that the average person
there seemed more satisfied and less frustrated than the average
Western person, even in the most poor slum section of Delhi.

>Your message is about as welcome in this newsgroup as is the
>evangelism of limp-dick bible thumping fundies.

Well, I didn't really expect to be welcomed with rounds of applause
when I came here, but some people - the more thoughtful ones - have
voiced their appreciation. You have to understand, that not all
atheists are fanatical fundamentalists who accept modern scientific
theories like indisputable gospels. 

There are some who are atheists simply because they havent't yet been
presented with real religion that is founded on sound logic,
argumentation, and proper knowledge. When they hear the eternal
message of the Vedas, some even check it out with serious inquisition,
and their lives are changed. I know because I was one of them.

> Your long-winded,
>pseudo-intellectual, over-emotional crap does not impress many people
>here either.

Right, it doesn't impress those without a brain. And, let me tell you,
they are numerous in this group. I wonder what _ will_  impress such a
person? So you are right, not many appreciate, but a few does, and it
is for their sake that I stick it out here.

> You are just another theist spewing the same garbage
>using different words, every single one of you thinks that their
>testimony is going to change the lives of the ignorant atheists. 

But it does change the lives of some atheists. Surely not everyone is
as preconceived and prejudiced like you, so much to the effect that
they cannot anymore see the difference between real knowledge and
socalled religious garbage.

What's anyway wrong with changing one's life? If one's life stinks
only a fool wouldn't do something to change it, isn't it?

>You claim that because we don't take the time to wade through your
>voluminous boring mythology that we are closed minded and are ignorant
>because we don't accept what YOU say. Looking at krishna culture
>pragmatically seems to indicate that it is nothing but a lot of
>emotionalism with no real tangible benefits to the condition of
>mankind and Planet Earth.   

As I said, get an education. Do some real investigation, then come
back and tell me that all religion is the same, you sorry fool.You
have a real unhealthy tendency to generalize everything according to
your ignorant and preconceived notions. How will you ever understand
anything from such a narrow angle?

-Jahnu




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