From: Vrndavan Parker Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 22:39:21 +0200 (CEST) Robert while I appreciate your fondness for the path leading to the Buddha state, I'm afraid your understanding of ancient hinduism is based on erroneous scholarship. It's not your fault that for many years a lot of misinformation on vedic thought has been passed off as factual and relevant within certain academic circles. The oldest vedic books are certainly not teaching a polytheistic dogma, in fact there are no traditions from India that have ever taught polytheism. Here are just a few of the many sources from the Vedas. vishvatashchakshushruta vishvatomukho vishvato baahuruta vishvataspaat I sam baahubhyaam dhamati sam patatrairdyaavaabhumi janayandeva ekah II 'He who hath eyes on all sides round about him, a mouth on all sides, arms and feet on all sides, He, the one God, producing earth and heaven, welds them, with his all-spreading arms as wings, together.' Rig veda 10.81.3 suparnam vipraah kavayo vachobhir ekam santam bahudhaa kalpayanti - "The wise in their hymns represent in many ways the fine-winged (God), Who is but one." Rig veda 10.114.5 indram mitram varunamagnimaahuratho divyah sa suparno garutmaan I ekam sadvipraa bahudhaa vadantyagnim yamam matarishvaanamaahuh II "They call Him Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Agni and He is the shining Suparna Garutmaan. The sages describe the One Being (sat) in various ways (ekam sadvipraa bahudhaa vadanti). They call Him Agni, Yama, Matarishvan." yo nah pitaa janitaa yo vidhaataa dhaamaani veda bhuvanaani vishvaa I yo devaanaam naamadhaa eka eva tam samprashnam bhuvanaa yantyanyaa II "Our Father who is our creator and disposer, knows all the worlds and all things existing; He is one alone, the name-giver of all devas. Him other beings attain (for) He is the only solution for all our interrogations." Rig veda 10.82.3 om nadvitiye na tritiiyashchaturtho napyuchyate II na panchamo na shashthah saptamo naapyuchyate II naashtamo na navamo dashamo naapyuchyate II tamidam nigatam sah sa esha eka ekavrideka eva II 'He is called neither the second, nor the third, nor yet the fourth. He is called neither the fifth nor the sixth nor yet the seventh. He is called neither the eighth nor the nineth nor yet the tenth. He takes care of all that breathes and all that does not breathe. He has all this conquering power. He is one, one alone and only one.' Atharva veda 12.4.19-21 ya eka ittamushtuhi krshtiinaam vicharshanih I patirchajne vrshatratuh II O man! Praise God who is One and One only, and who is the Omniscient and Omnipotent Lord of all beings. Rig veda 6.45.16 aapo ha yadbrhatiirvishvamaayangarbham dadhaanaa janayantiiragnim I tato devaanaam samavartataasurekah kasmai devaaya havisha vidhema II rig veda yashchidaapo mahinaa paryapashyad daksham dadhaana janayantiryajnam II When this vast diffused matter producing an igneous condition and holding in its womb this universe, manifested itself, then He was the One life of all shining objects; He it is to Whom we offer our prayers. He who with His greatness looked on that diffused Matter possessed of heat and energy and producing the cosmos, Who is the Supreme Lord (Adhi Deva) of bright things (devas). He it is to Whom we shall offer our prayers. Rig veda 10.121.7-8 In the Rigveda 8.1.1 and Sama Veda 342 we find this Vedic injunction - maa chidanyadvi shansata sakhaayo maa rishanyata I indra mitstotaa vrshanam sachaa sute muhurukthaa cha shansata II "O ye friends! Do not glorify any other being than God, so that sorrows and sufferings may not trouble you. Praise Mighty God alone Who is the showerer of all blessings and repeatedly pronounce the sacred hymns together in all your congregations." eka eva namasyo vikshvityah II "One God alone is to be worshiped by all people. He is worthy of worship." Atharva veda 2.2.1 eka eva namasyah sushevaah II One God alone who is the Giver of true happiness and bliss is to be worshiped by all. Atharva veda 2.2.2 From the oldest part of the Vedas, the Rig Veda, comes the famous Purusha Shukta [Purusa Sukta]. Arguably the oldest known writings of humanity. Here we get the gist of the monotheistic panentheism of Vedic teachings. All of creation, nature, the Devas (demigods), humans, everything in existence is born from Purusha, the original being, all is created by Purusha, and all is comprised of Purusha. While the Vedas speak of many Devas [gods, Demi gods], the various gods like Indra, Varuna, Vayu, etc, are dealt with in two ways. They are either decribed as aspects of One omnnipresent God, or they are described as Devas, demigods, akin to Angels in Abrahamic traditions. In fact the very concept of archangels and angels or "planetary hosts" in the Abrahamic traditions was introduced into Judaism during the Babylonian captivity after the Babylonians were conquered by Cyrus the Great. The Persians took control over the Babylonian empire and also freed the Hebrews. Cyrus the Great is refered to as a moshiach or messiah in the Bible. His religion and the religion of Persia was Mazdaism (Zoroastrianism). At that time the Hebrews followed many religious beliefs. Judaism as it was to become had not yet been born. The Persian religious beliefs heavily influenced Judaism, Jewish scholars have commented that the concept of angels was taken from Mazdaism and made a part of the Hebrew belief system--see http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Archangel_(beings) Zoroastrianism was an offshot of the Vedic religion. In essence the concept of angels or planetary hosts in the current Abrahamic traditions finds its roots in very similar Vedic concepts. While many so called authorities claim that the original Vedic religion was polytheistic, and that the modern version "Hinduism" is very different then the original Vedic version, this outlook is due to a lack of education on both aspects of the tradition. Both the ancient Vedic version and the modern version are virtually identical in their philosophical outlook. While the modern version has split into many sub sects, the core teachings found in modern Vishnu centric, Shiva Centric and Devi (goddess) centric religions are all identical to the original Vedas. You wrote: "This religion was very integrated in philosophy (within the bounds of the Bhagvad book) and internal realization. Nowadays that has not changed much but as time went on the 'hocus-pocus' of the traditions were largely abandoned." I don't know what you mean by "hocus pocus" but if you mean the rituals, the religious history, ayurveda, yoga, etc, then no, most Hindus in India are full believers and practitioners. In the West and amongst the westernized Hindu population in India there is no doubt much less of an adherence to the "old ways", but those old ways dominate the religious life of the vast majority of Hindus. Also your characterization of Hinduism is a bit contradictory. First you wrote: "Even today there exists hundreds of sects with the widest range of thought imaginable. Cults like the Tantric or Rema, for example, exist within the Hindu boundaries while completely renouncing the Absolute." And then you wrote: "Meditation is done with complete concentration on any given representation, of God. In this sense Buddhism has become more open than Hinduism - (which often breeds isolation, discourages excitement and expects detachment from social suggestion.)" Your second comment tells us that "Hinduism" is a set or singular ideology and that a person will experience a set or singular response to his or her hindu practice. Yet in the previous comment you rightly stated that Hindusim encompasses a wide spectrum of philosophy and religious belief. Do you see the contradiction? The first comment you made is accurate and in being so negates the second comment. In truth there are many paths that teach under the Hindu banner. But the vast majority follow Vaishnavism (85% according to the last Indian government census). By trying to sum up Hindu religious cause and effect in such a narrow manner we end up with a common misrepresentation of "Hinduism". Happens all the time. I suggest learing about Hinduism from people who do not have an agenda to discredit its spiritual viability. Ever since the late 18th century Hindu scholarship in the West, and even in India until recently, was dominated by either Christians seeking to discredit Hindu beliefs for sectarian reasons, or by secular atheistic Indians and Westerners devoted to secularizing the Hindu populace for political reasons. Their weapon of choice in their crusade to dismantle faith in Hinduism was quack bigoted scholarship. That quack bigoted scholarship still dominates the views of most non Hindus.