Předmět: [world-vedic] Celts and Brahmins Od: john welch Datum: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 06:13:05 +0100 (CET) Komu: vediculture@yahoogroups.com Hullo from a new member, My interest is the similarity in Celtic and Vedic history. As Hurrians of the Caucasus in 1400 BCE had some Vedic gods, then possibly Brahmin teaching reached Europe. In Samhita Brahmana 1.6, Danu is a mother to Vritra , the killer of 3-headed Visvarupa who was greedy. In Celtic accounts, the Danube (like Scythians' DNieper, DNiester and DON) rivers were linked with a snake-woman whose 3-headed cattle-stealing nephew was killed by Hercules. Hercules mated with the Celtic and the Iranian Scythian snake-woman. The DANAan goddess of the Boyne ("bo" cattle) river in Ireland, seized cattle from an opponent and the cattle were carried down-stream. The Irish Murrigan ("maharani"?) was both a beautiful woman and a snake. I would like to discuss the Brahmin influence in Europe. Předmět: [world-vedic] Re: Celts and Brahmins Od: Vrndavan Parker Datum: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:25:43 +0100 (CET) Komu: vediculture@yahoogroups.com Thank you for sahring this info. I have also done some reseacrh on this topic and am amzed at the similarities. The insights you highlighte dbelow are excellent and new to me. I will send yr message to other forums as well. The Brahmin/Vedic influence in europe is obvious. its just that the info is still kind of scattered and ignored by many. anymore such info you have pls send it and welcome to the group. Vrndavan Předmět: Re: [world-vedic] Re: Celts and Brahmins Od: jm Datum: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 09:49:37 +0100 Komu: vediculture@yahoogroups.com Hare Krishna John and Vrin, here is some info on Celts as well: http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/connections/Europe.php John, can you please provide reference? It'd be a nice addition to our site. Hope this helps. Hare Krishna "This Krishna Consciousness is a science to understand what is the difference between a dead body and a living body". (A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada) Your servant, bh. Jan http://www.vrindavan-dham.com http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz Předmět: [world-vedic] Common Ground Between Celtic and Vedic Civilizations Od: Vrndavan Parker Datum: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 06:26:52 +0100 (CET) Komu: vediculture@yahoogroups.com Common Ground Between Celtic and Vedic Civilizations Written by H.V. Shivadas Towering oak trees silohuetted a full moon scudding through charcoal clouds over the midnight forests of northern Europe. A broad lake rippled the moon's image. Two crackling fires fed on sacred oakwood and offerings jetted skyward from square and round pits set in a spacious rectangle clearing-defined by a water-filled moat. Surrounding the fires in a designated order were lean men called druids, sitting erect, eyes closed or mystically fixed, their long hair-white, blonde, auburn, brunette-stirred by stiff breezes. They wore white and dark blue cowled robes. A hundred yards away-mixed with owl hoots and forest murmurs-their chanting could be heard, a flowing acoustic river: sonorous, metered, slightly musical with alliterated phrases. Out on the lake were boats stacked with huge, gleaming heaps of cauldrons, swords, vases, mirrors, trumpets, lyres, furniture, jewelry-all wrought of gold, silver and copper. At the auspicious apogee astronomically calculated by a druid, the treasure was pushed overboard, sinking like metallic fish to the bottom. It was a forever gift to Lugus, the Celt God of Light, perhaps to use as a conduit of supernatural energy for blessings. This was a Celt high ceremony, and such treasure offerings-sometimes representing 25% of a Celt tribe's economy-have been found by archeologists in lakes, ravines and votive wells all over Europe. It is one of dozens of mysteries of a people that are now ghosts of European history, but who were kindred spirits of the Vedic Hindus in India 3,000 to 1,500 years ago. Like giant mirrors set in the Alps and Himalayas, the two societies reflected images ranging from cosmology to civic law. The Celts were a complex, spiritual, vivacious, artistic, business- smart people speaking an Indo-European language much like Sanskrit , German or Greek, grouped into socially sophisticated tribes that fanned across Europe 3-4 millennia ago and leapt to Britain and Ireland-from eire, a Celtic Goddess overlighting land. Eventually, they even made Turkey their home, and came very close to turning Rome into a Celtic eire. The Celts were a handsome people, tall and muscular-no fat allowed by law. The men sported burly mustaches and elaborate gold torcs banded their necks. The women wore colorful chequered skirts, blouses and cloaks. The druids were a mystical order, trained for 20 years in memory, oration, law, metaphysics, ritual, magic, meditation, science, medicine. They roamed like free spiritual stallions among all the Celt tribes, and annually a grand council of all the druids was held on a broad hill or deep glen. The Celts weren't the only Indo-Europeans settling the European idyll. Balts, Slavs, Germans and Nordics nestled in-all the way north to the frozen scrags of Iceland. They each radiated a language, spiritual mindset and culture that tracks that of the early Vedic. At dawn, Germans daily slipped into cold, sacred rivers for ablution, chanting and wearing loose-flowing robes and a topknot in their long hair "so emblematic of the brahmins". So recorded Tacitus, the adventurer Roman historian. The Slavs took seven steps around a holy fire in marriage. The Icelander saga-the Edda-contains creation passages that are Upanishadic in tone. Imagine a wide swath from Iceland, Ireland, the European west coast across southern Russia, the Caucasus mountains, through Afghanistan and into India; that is the common ground for this unnamed mutual spiritual/cultural system. But there is more. The early Persians, the Hittites in ancient Turkey, and Greeks and Romans also spoke Indo- European language branches, and practiced parallel religions. The European, Asia Minor and Indian geography was blanketed by peoples speaking shared languages and following a single, multi-faceted mosaic of religions. Only Hinduism survived in India, though it mutated, and was nearly eclipsed by Buddhism. The Celtic religion survived most apparently in the ancient Irish faith and culture. Like the Vedas, the extant Old Irish literatures-memorized and transmitted through a 12-year training by an Irish bard/priest class who were the inheritors of the druids-are a window into Celtic thought and lifestyle. Again, like the early Vedas, the Old Irish sagas and hymns are at times locked in metaphor that we don't hold the keys to. There are also vast gulfs of knowledge missing from the Old Irish literature, for the only existing material is that put into writing- for the first time-by Irish Christian monks in the 7th century ce. By that time, 700 years of Roman warfare and punitive politics (all the way to Britain) followed by Holy Roman Church hegemony (including Ireland) virtually extinguished the flames of the European pagan religions. What remained was a Europe brightly misted in folk wisdom and sagas and inlaid with thousands of temple sites, holy groves and springs, stoneworks, fortresses, towns, cremation and burial grounds, sacred rivers, mountain eeries, seaside grottoes and treasure lakes all bearing names, artifacts and wisdom of the Celtic Gods, druids and culture, and other Indo-European pantheons. Most of what is considered Christian Europe is actually pagan Europe. Christmas day (December 25th) was usurped and inaccurately fixed by Christians from the Roman festival of Mithra. It came in turn from the Celt festival of the winter solstice, an astronomical event the druids observed to set the exact beginning of the new solar year-the same calculation brahmins made in India. The connections between Celtism and Vedism are dazzlingly profuse, but they aren't entirely dead branchings. They arch right into a hotel in County Kerry, Ireland, where historian Bryan McMahon plays a telling game with every Indian guest he meets. He hums some Irish folk music and asks them to complete the tune however they like. He says almost every time they will sing it like they already knew the song. "For me that is an indication that Indians and Irishmen have a common past." A Celt/druid renaissance is brewing in Europe and the US. Předmět: [world-vedic] Re: Celts and Brahmins Od: john welch Datum: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 08:25:13 +0100 (CET) Komu: vediculture@yahoogroups.com Vrndavan and Jan, Thank you. Here are 3 legends which support each other. "On the Alps was a woman seen straying, and herding the flocks of the sheep. "Whence have come you?" she said: "Out of Ireland are we... "On this journey," said Conall, "our guide hath been woe: All the cattle that feed in these pastures are ours,". "Ye shall find, amid dangers, your danger most great In the serpent who guardeth the Liss at the gate." "Trust us well," answered Conall, "that raid will we do! And the castle they sought, and the snake at them flew: For it darted on Conall, and twined round his waist;. Then the serpent from Conall was loosed, from his belt It crept safely, no harm from that serpent he felt: And they travelled back north to the Pictish domains, And a three of their cattle they found on the plains;" (Tain Bo Froech) THE STORY OF CELTINE Hercules, it is told, after he had taken the cattle of Geryon from Erythea, was wandering through the country of the Celts and came to the house of Bretannus, who had a daughter called Celtine. Celtine fell in love with Hercules and hid away the cattle, refusing to give them back to him unless he would love her. Hercules was indeed very anxious to bring the cattle safe home, but he was far more struck by the girl’s exceeding beauty, and consented to her wishes; and then, when the time had come round, a son called Celtus was born to them, from whom the Celtic race derived their name. This one one of the twelve labours of Hercules." (Partheneion Love Stories 30. Partheneion Alcman 30. Diodorus 5.24 Etymologicaon Magnum 502. "Python..Delphic Myth" Fontenrose 1959 UCal. Cam. pp.97-9.) "Herodotus told one of the most complete versions of Scythian genealogical legend in his story about "Scythian Heracles" (IV, 8-10). And Herodotus' story is expanded by information of other ancient authors. So, Herodotus tells: Once Heracles, driving his bulls in front of him, came to the deserted country at the Pontus' shore (the Black Sea), country which later was inhabited by the Scythians. The snow-storm was raging, it became cold, Heracles wrapped himself in lion-skin and went to sleep leaving his horses in the pasture. Getting up, he found out that by some miracle his horses disappeared and he left the place for searching them. In the cave, which was in the forest, he met a wonderful creature-maiden: the lower part of her body had the form of snake. This maiden-echidna introduced herself as the master of the deserted country and promised to give him his horses back on condition that Heracles should have intimate relations with her. Heracles agreed to do a deal with her and the maiden did her best to keep him by herself as long as possible. Only later when she understood that she would have three sons from Heracles, she let him go, gave him back horses and got from the future father gifts which were meant for the most worthy son. And this worthy son was turned out to be Scythes, descendants of whom inhabited that country which had been deserted before. (I.V. Pyankov, Yaroslav Uni., Novgorod) This fits both Samhita Brahmana 6, and the Naga snake-ancestor of Kambujas of Angkor Wat. Scythians were in Hungary from 450 BCE and Punjab from around 50 BCE, (with Greeks) and were fellow tribesmen of Kambujas. The Pali Skt. chamara is the Brahmin king of Thailand's royal tassel (a yak-tail), derived from Cambodian Brahmins and seen in Skt. camara, as used by Genghiz Khan. "Chamarre" is the French robe , where "tasseau" means a tassel clasp for a robe. British royals wear tassels with "chimere" robe, also used by bishops and worn in the House of Lords parliament. Above Windsor castle where the chimere is worn, is carved the goat-lion yale, as in Hindi Yali horned lion. This is at the chapel of George and the Dragon, from "draco" snake, evidently from the snake histories above. In Greek writings, the snake (Echidna) was the mother of the goat-lion yali, Chimera. British royals have Brahmin ritual. Předmět: Re: [world-vedic] Re: Celts and Brahmins Od: jm Datum: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:03:22 +0100 (CET) Komu: vediculture@yahoogroups.com >In the cave, which was in the forest, he met a wonderful creature-maiden: the lower part of her body had the form of snake. This maiden-echidna introduced herself as the master of the deserted country and promised to give him his horses back on condition that Heracles should have intimate relations with her. This is quite typical for female Nagas. The Arjuna-Ulupi story from Mahabharata is pretty much the same. An alleged Naga-relationship of British royals comes to my mind. http://www.metatech.org/david_icke_and_reptilians.html http://www.sabon.org/credo/index2.html ys Jan Předmět: [world-vedic] Re: Celts and Brahmins Od: john welch Datum: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 22:06:58 +0100 (CET) Komu: vediculture@yahoogroups.com Well, when the monarch and men of the George Dragon climb the steps at Windsor, they form a "crocodile" line.. The king of Babylon who had the snake dragon, climbed the steps of the Tower for ritual marriage, as did the Angkor Wat king of the Naga. The Brahmin royal tassel, chamara, is made of chamari "yak-tail hair". In Bavaria, which was Celtic territory, the gamsbart tassel on national costume is made of gamse/ gemse hair of chamois, from a freshly-killed goat. That suggests pre-Christian tradition, as in Celtic Spain where zamarrones in zamara "goat-skin robe" wear a goat-head on their head. "Chamara /zamara" became British "chimere"_ Ox. Dict. The Celtic god Camulos in Britain had goat-horns, and goat-heads depicted Babylon's gods on carvings. Brahmins and goats were created before other people, as in Agni the Brahmana.:Taittiriya Samhita 7.1.1.4 "Cambodia" seems to be from "kambujiya/ cambyses" as in Greek byses "fine cloth", connected with the robe of Babylon's king. Thailand's royal Brahmins have a fine white robe, and goat-wool was used for camelot cloth in chimere robes. The Celtic deity on the Gundestrup cauldron holds a snake with ram-horns. As the Celtic snake was mother to Chimera goat-lion, then perhaps Naga was mother to the Hindi goat-lion Yali. Předmět: [world-vedic] Indra Pillyar? Od: john welch Datum: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 22:11:10 +0100 (CET) Komu: vediculture@yahoogroups.com Pillyar in Tamil Nadu has shrines beside water pools. Could you tell me if he is linked to running waters? My reason is that Brahmins from Bali Indonesia seemed to have reached east Australia, where Indooroopilly is a place on the Brisbane river and means "running waters". Nearby is Fraser Island "Gurree" formed by a shining white sky-goddess of the lakes, which is like Gauri shining snow-born wife of Shiva of Ganges. "Buderim" means "sandal-wood", and in Bundjalung language "budar budarum" means "speak. ancient stories". In legend, the ship arrived from Ngareenbeil, and Skt. "negara" means "state system" in Bali : Malaysia. Is Indra-Pillyar linked to running waters?