Text 214773 (99 lines) From: Internet: Petter Claesson Date: 22-Sep-95 21:34 AST To: Mis (cellaneous texts from the Internet) [108], (NE BBT) Korsnas Gard [705] Cc: Jambavati (dd) HKS (Mayapur) [1036] (received: 23-Sep-95 07:49) (sender: Caitanya Candrodaya (das) SDG) Subject: Hindu 'milk miracle' frenzy spreads around globe ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www2.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/world/world538_6.html > Hindu 'milk miracle' frenzy spreads around globe > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > (c) 1995 Copyright The News and Observer Publishing Co. > (c) 1995 Reuter Information Service > > NEW DELHI (Sep 22, 1995 - 11:24 EDT) - Feverish Hindu faithful > around the globe converged on temples on Friday as word spread that > stone idols in India were drinking sacred milk offerings. > > From Long Island to London and Hong Kong to New Delhi, thousands of > worshippers and the merely curious thronged temples hoping to > witness what Indians were calling the "milk miracle." > > "It is a miracle," said Srikant Ravi, the priest at Delhi's Hanuman > Temple. "The gods have come down to earth to solve all our > problems." > > The frenzy started early on Thursday with wildfire rumours that > idols of the Hindu god Shiva, his consort Parvati and their son, the > portly elephant-headed Ganesh, were sipping traditional milk > offerings in Delhi. Word quickly spread through India. > > Indian offices and homes were abuzz as even well-heeled businessmen, > politicians and journalists dropped what they were doing to join the > frenzy. > > But by Friday the fever had abated in India, though devotees were > reported to be continuing to feed milk to the gods. > > "It cannot be a hoax," said business executive Parmesh Soti. "Where > would all that milk go?" > > One Delhi resident claimed the milk in his refrigerator had > vanished, swallowed by the statue of Ganesh poised on top. > > Indian scientists said the marvel was mass delusion, explained by > elementary physics. "It may be a politically motivated stunt," Sanal > Edamarukku, head of the Indian Rationalist Society, said. > > The Pioneer newspaper carried a photograph of a man collecting milk > in a bucket placed under a spout leading out of the back of a Delhi > temple. > > But the excitement quickly spread across borders. Hundreds of Hindus > flocked to a temple in London's Southall district as word spread > through the capital's large Indian community. > > "I held the spoon out level, and it just disappeared," said Anila > Premji. "To me, it was just a miracle. It gave me a sense of feeling > that there is a god." > > On Long Island and in New Jersey in eastern United States, devotees > said Hindu deities were swallowing milk. One worshipper told the > Press Trust of India he had kept a saucer of milk in front of idols > in his home. The milk, he said, had disappeared. > > In Indonesia, housewife Ritu Garg said she and her two children were > left speechless when her family's small silver idol of Ganesh, god > of good luck and wealth, began drinking. > > "My two children were urging Ganesh to finish his milk, just as I > tell them to finish theirs," she said. > > In Bangkok, hundreds of ethnic Indians along with Buddhist Thais > rushed to a Hindu temple. "If you have faith, you can see it with > your own eyes," an ethnic Chinese woman said. > > Hundreds of Bangladeshis flocked to a home in the country's > southwest after hearing that a brass-made statue of the diety Gopal > Thakur had taken in milk. In Hong Kong, home to more than 20,000 > Indians, thousands of Hindus joined in the rite. > > Scientists in India debunked talk of a miracle. "An organised > conspiracy is behind such reports, to work up popular religious > sentiments," said Sudip Bhattacharya, head of the Paschimbanga > Vigyan Mancha, a rationalists' forum. > > Scientists said simple physics had an explanation. Liquids like milk > can appear to be absorbed into stone but actually molecules in the > rough surface create a "capillary channel" that sucks in droplets > which then spread in a thin layer. > > "It is difficult to spot the thin layer, especially if the marble is > white," physicist V. Das Bangia said. "But it can be detected if the > marble is black." > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- Petter Claesson voice: +46-8-530 25352 Korsnas Gard fax: +46-8-530 25006, 25068 S-147 92 Grodinge petter@algonet.se Sweden premarnava.hks@com.bbt (Text 214773) ---------------------------------------------- Text 215843 (61 lines) From: Internet: Vipramukhya Swami Date: 24-Sep-95 11:07 MST To: Global Free Forum [736] Cc: Philosophical Exchange [1868] Subject: Is Lord Siva Drinking the Milk? Weird!!! ------------------------------------------------------------ It's definitely weird, and hard to explain off. The phone just rang. On the other end was Yudhistira dasa, a very respected member of our community, initiated devotee. He is offering milk to a deity of Lord Siva in his home, and the milk is disappearing. The same is happening with Tulsi dasa, another initiated devotee, in his home. The same with Govinda Sammy, another devotee planning to take intiation from me soon. I asked Yudhistira what is happening. He says he puts milk in a spoon and holds it up to the deity of Lord Siva and it is disappearing from the spoon, right in front of everyone. Sometimes it goes fast, and sometimes it goes slowly. Now, I do NOT want to vouch for this story, but I DO want to vouch for the validity of Yudhistira dasa. He's an older Indian devotee, with a good head on his shoulders. He is a Prabhupada man all the way. I know him personally. He's NOT one to make up stories. The same is true for the credentials of Tulsi dasa. Tulsi is a younger than Yudhistira. I think Tulsi must be in his late 30's or early 40's. He's a very balanced devotee and formerly one of the top Life Membership collectors in New Delhi. He speaks English fluently, like a Canadian. Both he and Yudhistira are educated men. Yudhistira is taking advantage of this as a preaching oportunity and is going on Television today to tell of his household deity taking the milk. It's all over the news here. It's in the newspapers (front page), on the television and also on the radio. We've also heard many reports are coming from India, and in other parts of the world as well, such as England and Fiji, etc. There are also reports of possible cheating going on in India, which I don't doubt. India is full of expert cheaters. But when our own local, initiated devotees start reporting it's happening in their home in front of all their family members, and it's in all the local papers, and people are asking me what's my opinion, I don't know what to say to them. So I tell people, "Yes, it's possible. I don't know if it's really happening the way people say that it is, but it certainly possible." Another thing I am saying is that "Yes, Lord Siva's followers are mostly in the mode of ignorance, and need convincing. Therefore he is convincing them. But devotees of Lord Krishna are already convinced. We don't need such miracles." Of course, although devotees of Krishna don't need such miracles, it's a known fact that in almost every ISKCON temple miracles do happen from time to time. Practically every ISKCON temple has stories where certain offerings on the plate of the Lord go missing once in a while, every few years. And there are many such stories in the Chaitanya Caritamrta. As for me, am I crazy for even writing this? I have serious doubts about this whole thing, but it can't be ignored just because of the sheer immensity of the publicity and attention this is getting from the media and our congregation. People want to know what our official position is on the subject. It's become, like it or not, weird as it is, a really big news item. Any other weird reports like this in your area? YS Vipramukhya Swami (Text 215843) ---------------------------------------------- Comments: Text 215870 by Priyavrata (das) HKS (Gothenb.- S), Text 216069 by Krishna Dharma (das) MG (Manchester - UK), Text 216116 by LINK: Hari-kirtana (dasa) SDG Text 216232 (76 lines) From: LINK: Mrigendra (Dasa) ACBSP (Attorney - Los Angeles) Date: 25-Sep-95 09:30 EDT To: LINK: NNA (News - North America) , NEU (News - Europe) [150] Subject: Check On Your Local Ganesha Deity ------------------------------------------------------------ [News Presented Courtesy of ISKCON Communications] AP Online AP 21 Sep 95 15:06 EDT V0938 Copyright 1995 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. Reported Miracle Stirs Hindus NEW DELHI, India (AP) -- Millions rushed to Hindu temples across India on Thursday after reports of a miracle -- the statues of one of their gods were drinking milk. The faithful -- bearing milk in everything from earthen and steel pots to tumblers and jugs -- converged on temples that had reproductions of the elephant-headed Lord Ganesha. "It is a miracle," said A.K. Tiwari, a priest at a temple in southern New Delhi. Scientists dismissed that explanation, saying the offered milk trickled down the granite or marble idols in a thin film that was not easily visible. Crowds thronged temples in dozens of cities, including New Delhi, Bombay, Calcutta and Madras. There was no way to estimate the overall number of people going to the temples. But a city such as New Delhi has about 5,000 roadside temples, and crowds of up to 300 per temple were reported. Police and paramilitary soldiers were called out to guard temples across India. In the northern town of Jamshedpur, police waved bamboo canes to control a crowd of 500 that tried to storm a temple. Milk shortages were also reported. In Calcutta, cafes stopped offering customers milk with tea and instead sold the milk for 10 times the normal price. Tiwari, the priest, said the excitement began early Thursday when a devotee dreamed that the deity wanted milk. When the man, who wasn't identified, held a spoonful of milk near the statue's trunk, the milk disappeared. Word spread quickly and people began lining up at temples as early as 4 a.m. Many were late for work because they stopped at temples first. One of the more popular gods in the Hindu religion, Ganesha is credited with bringing prosperity. The faithful dismissed suggestions of a hoax. "It cannot be a hoax. Where would all the milk being offered go? It is such a small idol, it can't take in so much," said Parmesh Soti, a business executive who stood in line. "The gods have come down to earth to solve our problems." So widespread were the reports of a miracle that the federal Department of Science and Technology was asked to investigate. Their scientists offered milk mixed with colored pigments to an idol in a New Delhi temple. Although it disappeared from the spoon, it soon coated the idol. The scientists credited the "miracle" to surface tension, saying molecules of milk were pulled from the spoon by the texture of the statues. The federal minister for welfare, Sitaram Kesari, accused two right-wing groups of starting the rumors to capitalize on Hindu nationalism and win next year's general elections. The two groups are allied with the Bharatiya Janata Party, the main opposition in parliament. Indian folklore is replete with tales of miracles, and many in this predominately Hindu nation of 900 million believe extraordinary events can occur. (Text 216232) ---------------------------------------------- Text 216233 (76 lines) From: LINK: Mrigendra (Dasa) ACBSP (Attorney - Los Angeles) Date: 25-Sep-95 09:30 EDT To: NEU (News - Europe) [151] Subject: Update on Ganesha "Miracle" in London ------------------------------------------------------------ [News Presented Courtesy of ISKCON Communications] Copyright 1995 Agence France Presse Agence France Presse September 22, 1995 20:28 Eastern Time SECTION: International news LENGTH: 547 words HEADLINE: Hindus flock to temple to see marble idols "drinking" milk DATELINE: LONDON, Sept 22 BODY: British Hindus followed the example of their Indian counterparts Friday as they flocked to a temple to witness the "miracle" of marble idols drinking milk offered by devotees. Some 500 people -- many of them carrying cartons and bottles of milk --queued at the Vishwa Temple in west London after a priest there reported seeing statues of the Hindu gods drinking milk. The priest's claim came a day after reports from India that millions of people had swarmed into Hindu temples there following rumours that idols were miraculously "drinking" milk Roshan Lal Bhanbari, chairman of the west London temple, told journalists Friday he had asked his priest if anything had happened at the Vishwa temple after he heard about milk-drinking idols in India. The priest told him that "when he put a spoon of milk up to the lips of the deity the milk disappeared in seconds." Word soon spread through London's Hindu community and devotees began flocking to the temple to witness the "miracle" for themselves. Bhanbari said it was the first time anything like this had happened since the Vishwa temple was established in 1978. He said the the statue of Nandi -- the bull on which the Hindu deity Lord Shiva rides -- was performing the "miracle", but other people reported that another statue in the temple, that of Ganesh, the Hindu elephant god of wisdom, was also sipping milk. "I believe that some great soul has descended on earth, just like Lord Krishna, Lord Rama or Christ," Bhanbari added. "I believe that because there is so much suffering in the world, the gods are trying to create a society where love prevails," he said. An Indian High Commission spokesman here said they had received many calls from people who claimed to have witnessed the "miracle", but could not confirm them. In India on Thursday, civil servants, office workers, housewives, shopkeepers, stockbrokers and other residents of dozens of cities dropped whatever they were doing to join serpentine queues at Hindu temples to witness the "miracle". The unprecedented religious fervor spread to the four corners of the country with reports of Hindu idols consuming milk in New Delhi in the north, Madras in the south, Calcutta in the east and Bombay in the west. In New Dehli, police went on alert to control the surging crowds at temples to the Hindu god of destruction Shiva and his elephant-headed son Ganesh, the jovial god of prosperity and luck. (Text 216233) ---------------------------------------------- Text 216234 (64 lines) From: LINK: Mrigendra (Dasa) ACBSP (Attorney - Los Angeles) Date: 25-Sep-95 09:31 EDT To: LINK: NNA (News - North America) , NEU (News - Europe) [152] Subject: Milk Story Spreads to Krishna Deity ------------------------------------------------------------ [News Presented Courtesy of ISKCON Communications] Copyright 1995 Reuters, Limited September 22, 1995, Friday, BC cycle LENGTH: 331 words HEADLINE: Hong Kong Hindus throng to temples on miracle news BYLINE: By Kwan Chooi Tow DATELINE: HONG KONG, Sept 22 Hong Kong's Hindus spent a second day on Friday offering milk to Hindu gods in the hope that their wishes would come true. "I felt it (a figurine representing Ganesha) drank the whole spoon of milk," said Neelam Gupta, who visited a Hindu temple in Happy Valley on Hong Kong island on Friday. Ganesha is the elephant-headed deity who is the son of Lord Shiva and Goddess Parvati. Like thousands of other Hindus in the colony, Neelam received a call from her parents in Bombay, India, telling her a "miracle" was taking place as idols of Ganesha and Lord Shiva drank milk. "I tried feeding the Ganesha statues at home with milk but it didn't work, so I came to the temple this morning," said Neelam, who conceded that some of the milk she fed the Ganesh idol at the temple may have spilled. Hong Kong is home to more than 20,000 Indians, many of them Hindus. The devout believe their wishes will come true if an idol accepts an offering of milk. Head priest Prakash Sharma said that 700-800 devotees had flocked to the temple since Thursday morning when the reports first surfaced in India and spread to Nepal. He claimed that most of the "milk-drinking" in Hong Kong was by statues of Ganesha, Lord Krishna and Lord Brahma. "I was praying at about 4 p.m. (0800 GMT) yesterday when I had a hint that maybe we should try feeding Lord Krishna, " he said. Five minutes after a little girl started feeding the statue with milk using a spoon, the idol started drinking, he said. Idols of the deities are given milk as offerings each day but this was the first time the idols had "drunk" milk, said the priest. Another devotee said the temple was filled with hundreds of people who trooped in until 3 a.m. (1900 GMT Thursday). Late on Friday morning, there were about twenty women devotees at the temple trying to feed the idols there with milk. Much of this splashed around the statue. "It doesn't drink milk fed by everybody," said one woman as she walked away. (Text 216234) ---------------------------------------------- Text 216236 (143 lines) From: LINK: Mrigendra (Dasa) ACBSP (Attorney - Los Angeles) Date: 25-Sep-95 09:31 EDT To: LINK: NNA (News - North America) , NEU (News - Europe) [154] Subject: Update on Ganesh ------------------------------------------------------------ Copyright 1995 The Washington Post The Washington Post September 23, 1995, Saturday, Final Edition SECTION: A SECTION; Pg. A01 LENGTH: 684 words HEADLINE: Maryland Witnesses Hindu God's Mysterious Thirst for Milk BYLINE: Dan Beyers, Washington Post Staff Writer They came by the hundreds yesterday to a Hindu temple in rural Montgomery County to feed milk to a two-foot statue of an elephant-headed god named Ganesh. And no matter how many skeptics tipped teaspoons of milk into his tiny trunk, Ganesh never seemed to have his fill. At Mangal Mandir, Hindus streamed into the modest building throughout the day. Some brought milk. Others dipped into a bowl provided by the temple. A half-dozen plastic gallon containers of milk (whole and 2 percent) sat on the floor next to the statue. "I didn't believe it until I came here. Now I believe it," said Aruna Sharma, 38, of Silver Spring, who left to fetch her two children so they could see for themselves. "I have a PhD in mechanical engineering, and I can't explain it," said Haashad Parikh, a temple trustee who works for a company that designs power plant simulators. "I went back to my office and said, 'I'm not insane, but this is really happening.' " A Washington Post reporter held a teaspoon of milk up to the statue's trunk and observed the fluid being absorbed into the statue, which temple officials said is made of marble. There were no visible holes in the statue. But the stone could be porous, because when the reporter carelessly spilled milk on Ganesh's potbelly, it quickly disappeared as well. The statue could be made of stone that contains tiny capillaries capable of drawing liquid from the surface, said Shawn Carlson, a physics professor at the University of San Diego who investigates reported miracles. "I've heard of statues crying, but never ones drinking milk," Carlson said. Richard Muller, a physics professor at the University of California at Berkeley, added: "This may be a natural phenomenon that no one paid much attention to before because no one tried to feed the statue milk. But I suspect they'll know soon enough, when the milk begins to sour." Parikh said temple elders observed no such absorption of fluids when they washed the statue in water and milk shortly after opening the temple in 1992. Lord Ganesh is a potbellied god of wealth and power whom Hindus worship when they begin an undertaking such as a marriage or a business. Parul Majethia, 26, an Arlington resident who came to the temple bearing a tomato sauce jar filled with milk, said it is fitting that Ganesh desires milk because "milk sustains everything." Rashmi Bhatnagar, 50, of Laurel, said she was skeptical until she saw the statue drink milk Thursday night. "I went home and offered milk to my tiny statue of Ganesh at home, and it drank the milk, too -- and my statue is made of silver," said Bhatnagar, who returned yesterday bearing a basket of marigolds for the deity. "I couldn't sleep." Bhatnagar said she cannot persuade her father, a retired scientist at the University of the District of Columbia, to come to the temple. "He doesn't believe it," she said. GRAPHIC: Photo, john mcdonnell, Sharmistha Gupta, left, feeds milk to a statue of Lord Ganesh at a Hindu temple in Montgomery County. Mira Sheth, of the temple, assists her. Reuters North American Wire, September 22, 1995 ... At a temple in central Delhi, some witnesses said the milk disappeared into the statue of Ganesh while others said they could see the liquid dripping down the statue and seeping out around it. Milk was selling for as much as $ 3 a quart in Delhi, agencies said. The government ordered an emergency shipment of 100,000 quarts. In the eastern state of Orissa, the chief minister ordered temples closed because of "milk hysteria." In Bangkok, hundreds of ethnic Indians along with Buddhist Thais rushed to a Hindu temple. "If you have faith, you can see it with your own eyes," an ethnic Chinese woman said. Hundreds of Bangladeshis flocked to a home in the country's southwest after hearing that a brass-made statue of the diety Gopal Thakur had taken in milk. In Hong Kong, home to more than 20,000 Indians, thousands of Hindus joined in the rite. Jet-setting Hindu holy man Chandraswamy, in the eye of a political storm in India for the past week after a government minister ordered his arrest for alleged misdeeds, wasted no time suggesting he could be behind the miracle. "I invoked Lord Ganesh yesterday. It could be his blessing," the high-flying holy man said. "This is only the beginning of godly miracles." (Text 216236) ---------------------------------------------- Text 216069 (3 lines) From: Krishna Dharma (das) MG (Manchester - UK) Date: 25-Sep-95 10:52 SST Refernce: Text 215843 by Internet: Vipramukhya Swami To: Global Free Forum [740], Vipramukhya Swami (sent: 25-Sep-95 12:46 SST) Cc: Philosophical Exchange [1878] Subject: Is Lord Siva Drinking the Milk? Weird!!! ------------------------------------------------------------ Yes, a lot of Hindu temples here were packed out with pilgrims bearing milk cartons. In a London temple a deity of Ganeshji was reported to have swallowed 3000 pints! No wonder he's so wise. (Text 216069) ---------------------------------------------- Text 216494 (38 lines) From: Internet: B. Reusch Date: 25-Sep-95 16:18 PST To: Global Free Forum [742] Subject: Re: Hindu images drink milk? (fwd) ------------------------------------------------------------ >Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 16:56:22 -0600 >From: Michael Byrd >Organization: Vanderbilt University Library >Subject: Re: Hindu images drink milk? (fwd) > >Two quotes from Shawn Landres' post: >> Thousands of awe-struck worshippers have swarmed into Hindu >> temples in Richmond Hill and Oakville to witness the remarkable >> phenomenon of milk-drinking statues that has baffled religious observers >> around the world. > >> Scientists say liquids like milk can appear to be absorbed into >> stone but, in fact, molecules in the rough surface create a "capillary >> channel" that sucks in droplets, which are then spread in a thin layer. > >The line between confessions of religious belief and scientific >explanations is not at all clear to me at this point. The hypothesis >that milk is "absorbed" into stone rather than "drank" by gods seems >as open to question as the explanations that Hindus seek to offer >(i. e., the gods want it and bestow blessings on those who comply). >The main difference seems to turn on one's views of nature: >qualities that "inate" or "unintentional" matter possesses vs. >extra-material or higher intentionalities and purposes. Other than >that, I find the speculation about "capillary channels" most >persuasive only if I choose to accept the idea that nothing else in >the world could possibly be happening. > > >Michael Byrd, Ph.D. Candidate >Religion, Ethics, & Society Program >Vanderbilt University > (Text 216494) ---------------------------------------------- Text 218786 (122 lines) From: Lokanatha Swami (SPC Minister) Date: 29-Sep-95 15:26 SST To: GBC Body [435], (Temple) Presidents [134], CSPC (Continental SP Centennial) [101], ICC (Indian Continental Committee) [59], Free Forum [776], Global Free Forum [745] Subject: the miracle of the milk ------------------------------------------------------------ THE MIRACLE OF THE DEITIES DRINKING MILK New Delhi, September 28th 1995 Dear Maharajas and Prabhus, Please accept my obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada, who gave us faith in Krishna, the master of all mystic powers. Centennial campaign ki jaya! You are probably wondering what is going on with the miracle of the Deities drinking milk that took place September 21st 1995 all over India and in many other parts of the world. Yes, it did happen! Thousands and millions witnessed it. We have photos and videos. Not only Ganesh, Lord Siva, Nandi and Kartikeya were thirsty that day, but other Deities as well. In the ISKCON Delhi temple Ladu Gopal and two smaller deities were spoon fed milk all day long by a throng of eager devotees, including Prabha Vishnu Swami. We just could not believe our eyes, but it did happen! Thursday, September 21st 1995, will remain forever in the minds of all the devotees who experienced this extraordinary event. How did it all start? The newspapers give a few speculations. A mysterious phone call was given around 2 am to some temple and pretty soon the news was spreading like wild fire all over the country. People started to throng to Ganesh and Siva temples from around 4 am. A few hours later everybody was calling and eagerly questioning anyone they knew or just casually met: "Do you know what is happening today? Have you seen the Deities drinking milk? It is happening? Let's go and see!". The atmosphere was surcharged with excitement. People were happy and jubilant, temples were filled with devotional songs and prayers, devotees were smiling and laughing, almost intoxicated by witnessing the sweet reciprocation of the Lord on all the faithful worshipers. Clean and not, everyone could approach the Deities that day and feed them, spontaneouly make an offering. Deities were drinking mainly from spoons, but also from lotas; a few pictures from calendars also accepted milk. Even some Muslims, who do not believe at all in Deity worship, could not resist the temptation and also made an offering of milk. The milk miracle took away the dullness of everyday routine to put the transcendental reality back into focus. It certainly changed the consciousness of all the believers that day and gave them a big boost. Devout Hindu ladies were seen happily poking their rather incredulous husbands "See now! It is all true, as I had told you before!" People were deserting their work, schools and offices, to madly rush to the temples and satisfy their curiosity. Streets and temples were packed. A few sceptics amongst our devotees pretended to stay cool in the midst of the pandemonium: " What's the big deal anyway, the Deities are eating and drinking everyday". But by the end of the day, they also gave it a try. The milk miracle instantly became the talk of the whole country. All the newspapers were filled with articles and photos. Here are a few of the headlines: - Millions spoon-fed on "miracle" (The Statesman) - Scientists dismiss it as mass hysteria (The Statesman) - Delhi witnesses frenzy of devotees (The Statesman) - Lord Ganesh confers his blessings selectively (Business Standard) - Gods feast on the milk of human faith (Business Standard) - Milk all the way for the Lord (The Hindu) - "Milk drinking" deities unleash mass hysteria (The Pioneer) - Rs 1 lakh for proving the "chamatkar" (The Pioneer) - Milk miracle drives people into religious frenzy (The Pioneer) - Reaching God the milky way (National Herald) - A miracle for believers and mystery for atheists! (Free Press) - Ganesh spell trigers hysteria (The Telegraph) - A reawakening for Hindus, claims VHP (The Telegraph) - Bored with ladus, Ganesh decided to change menu (The Telegraph) - It is all about believing what one wants to ( The Telegraph) - Holy smoke: psychiatrists believe this is only hysteria (The Asian Age) - The Gods prefer milk, but they are saying no to coke (The Asian Age) - Awestruck devotees see second coming of avatar (The Telegraph) - Milk miracle catches fancy of UK catholics (The Telegraph) These sensational titles reveal the impact the drinking of the milk had on the public. The gatekeeper of the Birla Temple reported that at least 55 000 have visited the temple and they spoonfed about 125 litres of milk. Devotees also flocked to temples in Nepal, Singapore, Britain, Indonesia, Hong Kong, USA, Italy, and Bangladesh. Amongst the many "explanations" given, a famous astrologer in North India says that according to Hindu mythology and his studies, when a great soul incarnates in this world, such miracles happen. It is a good omen. Delhi Congress leader, HKL Bhagat, believed it was a final proof of God's existence. "We are a nation of believers. I have seen and experienced this phenomenon. The gods drank from my hand five times." The editorial of "The Asian Age" (Sept 23rd) concluded that Thursday, September 21st 1995, will be remembered by all people: on that day their faith has been reinforced in a very extraordinary way. Here are some excerpts: " To experience and live through a phenomenon such as the one which touched the hearts and minds of all Hindus all across the world on Thursday must be exhilarating and profoundly moving for all those who felt the touch of the divine in their lives....The reality of what the worshipers witnessed, thousands of spoonful of milk disappearing before their eyes, changed them beyond measure. In the last 24 hours the fires of faith have been relit in the Hindu community." Hope this meets you with an increase of faith in the deity form of the Lord. Jaya Srila Prabhupada! Your servant, Lokanath Swami ÿ (Text 218786) ---------------------------------------------- Text 222042 (179 lines) From: Madhu Pandit (das) JPS (Bangalore) Date: 05-Oct-95 06:50 SWT Refernce: Text 218786 by Lokanatha Swami (SPC Minister) To: Naveen Krishna (das) ACBSP (ISKCON Foundation) [279] (forwarded: 05-Oct-95 09:03), (Temple) Presidents [144], CSPC (Continental SP Centennial) [106], ICC (Indian Continental Committee) [62], Free Forum [791], Global Free Forum [761] Subject: the miracle of the milk ------------------------------------------------------------ It is true that the Deities 'appeared' to have ' drunk milk' on Sept 21st. But our experience proved, beyond doubt that it was an illusion. Let me narrate what our experience was. One of our life members called up and said that their metal Ganesh deity was drinking milk. I asked him if he could bring his Ganesh deity to the temple. Accordingly he brought the deity. He showed how when the milk in a spoon touched the tip of the trunk of the deity the milk gradually rose and flowed towards the point of contact and soon the spoon was almost empty. Yes, what they said was happenning to the milk in the spoon! It was rising up and flowing over and soon the spoon was almost empty. Anyone would get amazed when he saw the milk in the spoon emtying. Then I asked the life member to leave the Ganesh for the night with us. After he left , all the temple devotees tried one by one and were amazed to see the phenomenon. We knew that it could happen if Ganesh wanted to, but why would he? We have heard of such reciprocation at gross level, being directed to only very rare devotees of the demigods or Vishnu. We couldn't beleive that Ganesh was specially pleased with the kind of worship he has been getting - especially the dose on Ganeshchaturti, just last month! Year by year the annual Ganesh puja, celebrated in every street corner, with film songs and disco music by the Indians are becoming more and more sensual and less and less religious. After many spoons were fed it was noticed that the tray holding the Ganesh was slowly getting filled with milk. So he was not actually drinking! The milk was just flowing over the rest of the deity and collecting below. While flowing over the body the layer is so thin that even milk doesn't show its whiteness. Only wetness shows. Then the milk got over. One of the devotees scooped up a spoonful of milk in the tray and started offering. That was also accepted. Then we offered it to his left hand. And it was accepted. Then the devotees offered the spoon to the rat vahana that was at the feet of the deity. He also drank the same way. Thus doubt began. Then we touched the spoon to the side of the stainless steel vessel (glass) and the milk drained out of the spoon in the same way. Then there was a paper weight made of glass on the table. As soon as we touched the spoon full of milk at a point on the bottom half of the paper weight we were surprised to see the milk emptying even faster than with Ganesh Srila Prabhupada's saying that " miracles are for fools" struck us. All the devotees were very relieved with the understanding. We tried on a picture of Ganesh. Yes it happened there also. Then we tried on the reverse side of the same paper , and it happened. Sometimes it would not flow in the first attempt. Then we found out why. First somehow the contact point that you are touching should become wet.. Once it is wet, the milk starts flowing. So this adds to the mystery for an ordinary person who thinks that some personal element is involved ie; in the begining he didn't take then we prayed and he started accepting. They wetted him first by tilting their spoon slightly over him as they could not bear that thier Ganesh is not accepting when everyone else's is. After that hundreds of people continued the excercise. This phenomenon can be repeated any number of times anywhere and not only on sept.21st. That is why they found Ganesh in Hong Kong, USA, London and many other places were accepting milk when their relatives called from India and asked to try. Then we recalled what we had studied in our school about capillary action due to surface tension of liquids, wherein the liquid can raise against gravity under certain conditions. A capillary action was taking place. A very thin layer between the spoon and the object you are touching is formed and capillary action begins to drain the milk from the spoon, molecule by molecule, in a chain. In some temples there was a great stampede and people were even in the altar. In the course of this rush most of the milk that was flowing down spoon by spoon, was being taken out little by little by the touch of the devotees hands and on their feet. So it appeared that he had consumed. This is also what happened in the temples. Ofcourse in the case of marble or stone deities, some absorbtion also takes place.To these basic facts people have added various types of spiced stories in their frenzy. The next day the TV showed how a cobbler's tristand also drank milk taking a dig at the believers of God drinking milk. All of you can try this experiment with a spoon milk. Please remember to initially wet the contact point to start the miracle. It is quite natural that some devotees are accepting this at its face value because we have knowledge that if Ganesh wants he can do it. Also the devotees are anxious that everyone devolops faith in Deity form. Such an opportunity seems like a windfall. However as far as we are concerned such faith is to be properly founded by filtering out all sentimentalism. The most unique and attractive aspect of Srila Prabhupada's presentation is that he did not want us to give up objectivity and rationality. He wanted us to act on the basis of knowledge, based on reasoning and scriptures. Today educated men are rejecting religion simply because of such sentimentalism. In fact this Ganesh miracle has in some respects had a negative influence. The non-believers, sceptics and even scientific minded believers have reconfirmed that the conventional religions are unscientific and sentimental. The following quotes from Srila Prabhupada shows how strongly he was against miracles in understanding God: From PQPA: Bob: Let me repeat what you said this morning--that was interesting. I asked about miracles, and you said that only a fool would believe in miracles because--let us say you are a child and an adult lifts this table. That's a miracle. Or you're a chemist and you combine acid and base and you make smoke, an explosion or whatever. To somebody ignorant, that's a miracle. But for everything there is a process, and so when you see a miracle, it's just ignorance of the process. So that only a fool would believe in miracles, and--you correct me if I say wrong... Srila Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Bob: You said when Jesus came the people then were somewhat more ignorant and needed miracles as aid. I wasn't sure if that's quite what you said. Srila Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Miracles are for the ignorant. Bob: I had asked this in relation to all the miracle men you hear about in India. (c) 1991 by Bhaktivedanta Book Trust Devotee: Is showing miracles like some swamis do the way to bring people back to spiritual life? Prabhupada: Why should I show miracles? What is the business? I have to speak the truth. That's all. What is the use of miracle? When you go to college or school we want to see miracles or you learn books and knowledge? Krsna never said that you go to a guru who can perform miracles. He never said that. He said (Sanskrit). Go to a jnani, and who has known the Truth, not to a jugglers, magician. Science is not magic. Science is knowledge. That is the Vedic injunction. (Sanskrit) In order to understand that science, not to see jugglery and magic. The jugglery and magic is here present. All these meat-eaters, drunkards, woman-hunters, now Vaisnava. This is real magic. If you have got eyes to see, see the magic. If you are blind then that is different question. This is magic. (c) 1991 by Bhaktivedanta Book Trust The devotees, they do not want any such miracles to perform or to make some jugglery to the people. They are satisfied with the service of the Lord. So that is the position of the devotee. But generally, the yogis, they want such things. (c) 1991 by Bhaktivedanta Book Trust Guest (7) (Indian man): Satya Sai Baba says... Prabhupada: Satya Sai Baba is not authority. Guest (7): No, no, I don't accept. Prabhupada: Then why you quote him? We are not prepared to hear his words. Guest (7): Kindly clear off my doubt. Prabhupada: No... That is another thing. That is another thing. Guest (7): All the miracles only just to increase confidence and... Prabhupada: Why...? Magic is magic. That is another thing. That is not knowledge. Guest (7): Suppose if I want to talk here Krsna consciousness among the masses... Prabhupada: No, we have to push on Krsna consciousness according to the direction of Krsna, not by the ways and means by Sai Baba. That is foolishness. (Text 222042) ---------------------------------------------- Comments: Text 222512 by Vipramukhya Swami Text 222512 (13 lines) From: Vipramukhya Swami Date: 05-Oct-95 17:44 SST Refernce: Text 222042 by Madhu Pandit (das) JPS (Bangalore) To: Naveen Krishna (das) ACBSP (ISKCON Foundation) [281] (forwarded: 05-Oct-95 20:50), (Temple) Presidents [146], CSPC (Continental SP Centennial) [108], ICC (Indian Continental Committee) [64], Free Forum [794], Global Free Forum [763] Cc: Viraja (dd) KKD (Wiesbaden - D) [852] (sender: Prasanta (dd) LOK (New Delhi)) Subject: the miracle of the milk ------------------------------------------------------------ "After many spoons were fed it was noticed that the tray holding the Ganesh was slowly getting filled with milk." Maybe that was your experience, but we have different experiences here. Although I am sure that there was a great deal of illusion, even fraud, in the milk drinking affair, there were local temples here in which 3000 litres of milk were disappearing a day, and they weren't going into a tray. And I have disciples and other initiated Indian devotees who offered gallons of milk to their home deities in bowls and cups, and it disappeared. It's hard for me to ignore that. I have to admit that I did not personally witness anything, but those are the local reports from here. -V.Swami (Text 222512) ---------------------------------------------- Text 223592 (39 lines) From: Sarvaisvarya (das) JPS (Coimbatore - S.India) Date: 07-Oct-95 17:48 SWT Refernce: Text 222042 by Madhu Pandit (das) JPS (Bangalore) To: Naveen Krishna (das) ACBSP (ISKCON Foundation) [284] (forwarded: 07-Oct-95 20:52), (Temple) Presidents [154], CSPC (Continental SP Centennial) [111], ICC (Indian Continental Committee) [66], Free Forum [801], Global Free Forum [769] Subject: the miracle of the milk ------------------------------------------------------------ Yes ! Well said. Its just a mass hysteria . Whats amazing is that how so many people all over the world could get collectively befooled at the same time and refuse to accept any other scientific explanation. Srila Prabhupada taught us that spiritual is scientific not mystic ! Myself and four devotees personally went at 11 pm in the night to one of the Ganesh temples and we were given a very special entry amidst a huge gathering. I personally fed milk to the deity and it apparently disappeared ! All the other devotees also fed and noticed that all the milk was falling down through a thin unnoticeanble film on the deity and being led to the drain ! In the drain a lot of milk was visible, but one could not notice anything on the deity. Later our cook came to the temple and demonstrated the whole phenomena on an old grinding stone in the Kitchen ! IT worked perfectly. The grinding stone drank!, and then many objects too ! IT is not surprising to see Ganesh exhibit these mystic potencies, after all he is Bhuta - Gana -adi Pati !. We know how much tricks even ordinary bhutas ( ghosts ) play in the life of mortals - Maybe Citteswar Pr can speak galore. Lord Ganesh is no doubt a very powerful demigod, and its quite possible that he did exhibit his potency in some temple on Sept 21st. But the one we saw was defitnitely not one of those temples, and many such bogus cases were exagerrated by TV nerds who have long since forgotten the world. Our Hindu brethren spread all over the world nabbed the opportunity to subtanitate their much eroded faith, like the mush they regularly see in the Indian movies. Even if it was so, there is nothing very surprising . There are many such miracles in many places in India for aeons, maybe Sadaputa PR and Atma Tattva PR who went combing all these places in India for their book on Paranormal science can tell more. Lastly at least ISKCON should not fall in to the same trap of appreciating a surface tension phenomena as a mystic performance to increase devotion ! Its not mystic its a mistake ! Yours Servant - SARVAISVARYA DASA. (Text 223592) ---------------------------------------------- Text 234279 (23 lines) From: Internet: Vipramukhya Swami Date: 07-Oct-95 13:59 PST Reply-To: vswami@mindlink.bc.ca To: (Temple) Presidents [168], Naveen Krishna (das) ACBSP (ISKCON Foundation) [307] (forwarded: 03-Nov-95 13:15), CSPC (Continental SP Centennial) [117], ICC (Indian Continental Committee) [76], Free Forum [853], Global Free Forum [808] Subject: Re: the miracle of the milk ------------------------------------------------------------ > Yes ! Well said. Its just a mass hysteria . Whats amazing is > that how so many people all over the world could get > collectively befooled at the same time and refuse to accept > any other scientific explanation. Srila Prabhupada taught us > that spiritual is scientific not mystic ! Before you reject, have you read Lokanatha Swami's posting asserting it really did happen? I'm not taking sides, I did not witness anything, but we have *reliable* devotees in our local community who say that it did happen in their own homes, and they are *not* hysterical types, but completely rational. It also stopped after some days. Why would that be? Anyway, read Lokanatha Maharaja's post. Or visit my web page for information. It seems to me that much hysteria may have taken place, but at the same time, something did happen. Don't be too quick to reject something because it doesn't "fit in." -Vipramukhya Swami ************************************* home page: http://mindlink.net/vswami email: vswami@mindlink.bc.ca ************************************* (Text 234279) ---------------------------------------------- Text 245637 (32 lines) From: Lokanatha Swami (SPC Minister) Date: 20-Nov-95 14:14 SWT Refernce: Text 234279 by Internet: Vipramukhya Swami To: (Temple) Presidents [178], Naveen Krishna (das) ACBSP (ISKCON Foundation) [321] (forwarded: 20-Nov-95 16:50), CSPC (Continental SP Centennial) [122], ICC (Indian Continental Committee) [77], Free Forum [891], Global Free Forum [849], Vipramukhya Swami (sent: 20-Nov-95 15:50 SWT) Subject: Re: the miracle of the milk ------------------------------------------------------------ When I uploaded the story about the milk miracle I did not do so intending on starting a debate. I fed, along with two other ISKCON sannyasis and several thousand visitors, milk to Laddu Gopal Deity at our ISKCON New Delhi temple. That was also a first hand experience of millions all over the country and abroad in feeding Ganesh and Shiva. Except for a handful of scientists, communists and skeptics, I think the entire Hindu community around the world had been convinced that the miracle happening was indeed, a fact. There is no way to convince them otherwise. Anyway, I don t want to build up a case. But what happened was something beyond doubt. The 9 tall Deities were fed gallons and gallons of milk. And how often do the Deities drink milk the way They did on that particular day? This is certainly unprecedented and maybe the first time ever, as far as recorded history goes. I thought this event would give rise to a most rare opportunity for devotees to preach. How many times in the past were devotees challenged? Can you show us? Have you seen the Lord eating or drinking? Or why are you doing idol worship? (Your Deities are just idle, not active). I thought this milk miracle could be one of the proofs to make our point. That was the reason for my taking the initiative of posting this message on COM. Yes, the miracle is for fools. Well, people of the age of Kali are foolish, aren t they? So even the Lord had to do a miracle to impress upon the dull and thick headed fools. There was one scientist who was invited by the Hindu community to Southall in London where the Ganesh Deity kept drinking milk for three days. So the scientist watched and witnessed. His comment was this phenomena is beyond all physical laws. He did not denounce the fact that the Deity drank the milk, but he simply admitted that this is not within the realm of the laws of physics- something beyond. So I thought that was a pretty smart and honest observation, by at least one scientist. (Text 245637) ----------------------------------------------