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 A Response to — The Argument for the Tropical Zodiac in Vedic Astrology part 2
In the first part  http://www.dandavats.com/?p=10562of this article we pointed out that the sidereal zodiac was the one used by allpeople of the known world in classical antiquity until Ptolemy made the mistakeof popularizing Hipparchus’s idea of what came to be known as the tropicalzodiac. That in the West today there is still a school of astrologers who follow thesidereal system, and of course in Vedic astrology it is by the far the dominant system and will continue to be. We pointed out that in Vedic civilization they hadalways known about the precession of the equinoxes and because of the Islamicinvasion were aware of tropical astrology but rather than convert to tropicalastrology the Muslim astrologers converted to sidereal system. We then began todiscuss how the
Surya Siddhanta
was not used in daily practical calculation anddefinitely was not used for erecting a horoscope because of the very enigmaticnature of the text, which favored conciseness over clarity, and that without aguru and elaborate commentary the
Surya Siddhanta
is unintelligible. We nowcontinue:Reverting back to the Laura’s statements, she writes:“NOWHERE in the Surya Siddhanta does it say to use Sidereal Signs and Siderealpositions of planets to erect a horoscope.”As we have shown the
Surya Siddhanta
is not meant for erecting a horoscope, it is a collection of theorems and formulas. To calculate a horoscope you would use
 
a text in the
 sarini
class such as
Makaranda,
(today you would use an ephemeris).Secondly the rule for ayanamsa is defined in
Surya Siddhanta
3.9-12, the student is expected to know via the oral tradition, that is, his guru’s instruction, when toapply it for getting sidereal or tropical position of the various phenomena, not that the
Surya Siddhanta
has to repeatedly tell you to apply the ayanamsa whichby doing so would enlarge the text and detract from its conciseness. The student if he was not clear would consult his guru or a commentary such as
SiddhantaSiromani
for detailed explanation.In regard to finding the
lagna
(ascendant, rising sign) Laura states:“It then uses an ayanamsha to convert the planetary positions back toTropical positions and from there find the Tropical Lagna. After findingthe Tropical Lagna the Surya Siddhanta leaves it there. Since it isimpossible to find the Sidereal Lagna without the use of the TropicalZodiac, then it would be concluded that the Surya Siddhanta wouldmention to convert the Tropical Lagna back to its Sidereal position if that were indeed the method to be used. It does not mention this at all.”The rules for calculating the
lagna
are found at 
Surya Siddhanta
3.46-50. It doesnot at all say to convert anything to tropical system. What she doesn’t know is
 
that the “planets” in question is just one planet – the sun. In order to find thelagna one must first know the longitude of the sun. The method for finding thetrue and mean longitude of the sun is explained in
Surya Siddhanta
3.13-20. Byusing a sanku (gnomen, a stick 12 angulas (finger width) high) one measures itschaya (shadow) as it falls on a circle circumscribed around the sankhu. By doingthis and applying various trigonometric formulas one can ascertain the latitudeof the place from the chaya, the declination of the sun from the zenith distance,true longitude from the declination and mean longitude from the true longitude.This will always be the sayana (tropical) longitude of the sun because of the verynature of the system and that the whole physical geometry is in relationship tothe equinoctial points which move incrementally on a yearly basis (called theprecession of the equinox). After the tropical longitude of the sun is found thenthe rule for finding the lagna is applied (
Surya Siddhanta
3.46-50). It is left forthe student to know (from his guru) that they should apply the ayanamsa rule(
Surya Siddhanta
3.9-12) at the end of this procedure. From what I havedescribed above there is no conversion from sidereal to tropical and just “leavingit there” as the author asserts.Now from my very brief descriptions of what is involved one can see that thismethod of finding the lagna from the
Surya Siddhanta
is very ponderous,complicated and time consuming and requiring knowledge of sphericaltrigonometry. If this was the method that everyone was required to use forcalculating the lagna then we would be better off because we would be rid of somany mathematically challenged “astrologers” (95% of them) who are a bane tohumanity. Though it would rid us of the bogus astrologers it would be slow andimpossible to do at night. The solution is that methods used in the
SuryaSiddhanta
are distilled down in the karana and especially sarini (ephemeris, etc)texts for quick calculations, even for finding the lagna at night.We should also remember that until recently astrologers did not have aninternational clientele who accessed them via the Internet. Only with the spreadnewspapers and the telegraph from the late 19
th
century onwards haveastrologers spread their reach. For most astrologers before the late 19
th
centuryand well into the 20
th
century most of their clients would be locally born. I recallthe first time I tried to have my horoscope done in 1977 in Hyderabad that theastrologer could not properly calculate it especially my lagna, because he hadnever done the chart of someone who was not born in India.One of my main astrology teachers, Sriman B. G. Sashikanata Jain of Bangalore,with whom I studied from 1981-83 was a specialist in
 prasna sastra
. This meant that the lagna to be calculated was always for the same city Bangalore. And sincethe client was sitting in front of him expecting an answer it had to be donequickly. Since all his clients came to him in Bangalore he only had to calculate thelagna for one place. What he did was to get a very large book and for every day of the year he made a table for what times the lagna would change on that day. Not only the lagna but also the change of navamsas within that lagna were tabulated.Since the Vedic day begins at sunrise and the sidereal position of the sun wouldbe known for that day every year it was easy to calculate what the times for eachlagna and navamsa would be using the rules in karana and sarini texts. Eventoday his son uses this old hand written book as a backup for calculating the
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http://www.scribd.com/doc/95566304/A-Response-to-the-Argument-for-the-Tropical-Zodiac-in-Vedic-Astrology-Part-2